EPISODE 62: The place do microbial components slot in the way forward for pet meals formulation?
The beneath transcript is from Episode 62 of the Trending: Pet Meals podcast, the place host Lindsay Beaton discusses microbial components in pet meals with Katelijne Bekers, cofounder and CEO of MicroHarvest. You could find the episode at Trending: Pet Meals, on SoundCloud or in your favourite podcast platform. This episode initially aired on Might 30, 2024.
We need to thank Cargill for sponsoring this podcast. Cargill, a world chief in pet meals components and manufacturing, proudly gives TruMune postbiotic. TruMune is made to assist trendy pet meals manufacturers stand out by supporting a number of trending well being claims — like intestine well being, balanced immunity and pet vitality. Better of all? TruMune advantages are packed right into a single, low-inclusion ingredient, and it’s backed by a number of pet-specific analysis research.
Lindsay Beaton – editor, Petfood Trade journal, and host, Trending: Pet Meals podcast: Howdy, and welcome to Trending: Pet Meals, the trade podcast the place we cowl all the most recent sizzling subjects and tendencies in pet meals. I’m your host and editor of Petfood Trade journal Lindsay Beaton, and I’m right here right now with Katelijne Bekers, cofounder and CEO of MicroHarvest. Hello Kate, and welcome!
Kate Bekers, cofounder and CEO of MicroHarvest: Hello, Lindsay, thanks a lot for having me in your podcast. It is actually an honor.
Beaton: In case you’re not accustomed to Kate or MicroHarvest, right here’s what it is advisable to know.
Kate based Microharvest as a result of she had a transparent imaginative and prescient for the way forward for the agri-food provide chain and an intrinsic drive to alter the world for the higher. As CEO, her twin background in science and enterprise has allowed her to deal with tackling the challenges of the scaling of biotechnological processes and has resulted in an award-winning firm, acknowledged as a pioneer in constructing a resilient meals system for tomorrow by BloombergNEF.
MicroHarvest is a biotechnology firm on a mission to drive accessible vitamin for a more healthy planet. By using microbial fermentation and agricultural byproducts as feedstock, the corporate can rework uncooked supplies into high-quality proteins inside simply 24 hours. Their proprietary expertise not solely hastens manufacturing but in addition minimizes the useful resource footprint in comparison with conventional protein sources. MicroHarvest’s merchandise have purposes throughout a number of industries, from aquaculture to pet and human meals.
Kate’s place in a rising different protein area, alongside the mission of her firm, are why I’ve introduced her on right now to reply this query: The place do microbial components slot in the way forward for pet meals formulation?
First, Kate, we’ll need to do some little bit of a 101, as a result of you’ve rather a lot happening within the different protein area. A few of what you are doing is new when it comes to components for pet meals. I need to begin off by asking you — what’s biomass fermentation? And what does it do?
Beckers: So completely happy to start in the beginning to clarify what we’re doing. It sounds very new, however biomass fermentation is a expertise that people have been utilizing even earlier than we knew we had been utilizing it. If you contemplate fermentation processes, that is actually the method by which you have meals or sugars or different varieties of merchandise, and you employ microorganisms — so micro organism or yeast or fungi — to make one other product out of it. I believe a product that everyone knows is bread, the place yeast is changing the sugars to CO2, so that you get these good fluffy breads with holes in it. Additionally well-known — the manufacturing of beer and wine, the place yeast is changing sugars into alcohol. The identical course of is what we’re utilizing.
It is a little bit totally different. As a substitute of utilizing microorganisms because the software to make the last merchandise, the microorganisms themselves are the merchandise. This can be a bit of a distinct approach, however it’s very environment friendly as a result of the microorganisms can develop quick. It is a very quick manufacturing system. Additionally, they’re chock stuffed with protein and all types of different micronutrients. That approach we are able to produce numerous very nutritious biomass, numerous nutritious protein in a really quick time simply by specializing in rising the microorganisms themselves, after which utilizing these microorganisms as components to your pet meals.
Beaton: How do you develop the microorganisms? Are they feeding on what would usually be the top product and also you’re utilizing them — the center step — as a substitute of the top step because the precise protein?
Beckers: Sure. In case you develop microorganisms, it is advisable to give them some sugar and a few nitrogen, and so they can produce all the protein and the whole lot of the cell themselves. We name these agrifood facet streams. As a substitute of rising them on desk sugar, which we eat ourselves, we develop them on what’s left as soon as we have now made desk sugar from agricultural merchandise.
What’s left is nonetheless sugar, however we can not make good white crystals anymore, so we use that to develop the micro organism. It is form of a round course of, as a result of we use previous merchandise, the waste streams, then the microorganisms develop on that.
We do this in large stainless-steel tanks. In these, we make sure that it is the optimum situations for the microbes to develop. We give them a pleasant temperature, proper pH, then feed them sugar on a regular basis, in order that they’ll develop rather well. The good thing about that is you’ve a tank system, so you are able to do it wherever. It would not matter when you’re on the North Pole or someplace the place it is very popular, as a result of you may actually management the surroundings. You are not depending on climates or different elements.
Beaton: We’ll discuss its place in meals and pet meals in a minute, however I additionally need to understand how you bought concerned in all of this. You cofounded this firm. What made you interested by this to start with?
Bekers: It begins fairly some time in the past. I began finding out biotechnology after highschool due to the potential of fermentation and biotechnology. This was some time in the past. That was actually when the inexperienced bioeconomy was beginning to flip up. I assumed, “that is actually superb, we are able to transfer away from polluting the world. Cease utilizing crude oil and use biomass fermentation.”
That is when I began entering into biotechnology – I’m actually passionate concerning the sustainability that it could carry. Throughout my profession, I moved extra from the science facet to the enterprise facet of issues, as a result of I really like biotechnology and I love expertise, however I am not a hardcore scientist. There are different folks that are approach smarter than me know that I can do the issues approach higher than me.
What I actually love is to be on the interface between science and enterprise. In case you can carry science into society, that is when everyone can actually begin benefiting from it. That is the area that I moved to. First, I began working in a firm bringing merchandise with industrial biotechnology to market, then I labored in a pilot plant the place you scale processes from the lab to giant scale — actual bioreactors, which has some implications in biotech.
I actually discovered the technical facet of bringing issues out of the lab and into the true world. After that, I went to Germany. There I began working for a corporation in the B2B components area. I used to be technical gross sales to start with, so actually on this interface between science and enterprise, translating the science for prospects.
I actually, actually needed to do an govt MBA, as a result of I believe when you’re on an interface, it is advisable to communicate each languages. I might communicate with the geeks, however I wanted assist talking with the businesspeople. I did an govt MBA, after which moved extra to a strategic place within the B2B components area. This was actually, very nice, however in some unspecified time in the future, it began to itch a bit.
I remembered I began all this to create impacts and to carry one thing that contributes to the sustainability of the world. I wasn’t feeling that was actually what I used to be doing. At that second, I made a decision to stop. I referred to as my sister, and I advised her, “Okay, I will stop my job. If I do not discover anything, can I stay in your sofa?” She stated, “Sure,” so I stop my job.
Then I began considering, “Okay, what can I actually do? How can I actually carry impacts?” I spotted that whereas I used to be working within the B2B components area, after all, different protein has been a sizzling subject for a very long time already. Everyone talks about it. Once I was strolling from the doorway to the assembly room, you discuss different proteins. What I heard a number of instances is that firms are actually searching for different protein components apart from plant-based components, as a result of they’ve some limitations on dietary worth, on style, however nothing is on the market at scale.
In case you’re a firm and also you produce giant volumes of pet meals, you want giant volumes of uncooked materials to have the ability to even run assessments. I had this in thoughts, and on the identical time, I’ve a background in biotechnology. I do know we have now these microorganisms, particularly the micro organism, that develop actually, actually quick. They’re very, very nutritious. Let’s make one plus one equal three.
That is the begin of MicroHarvest. How we began actually specializing in the very starting on scalability of the method, which for me additionally means specializing in utilizing present day tools and expertise on the market so that you just actually can transfer into the markets comparatively quick. That is what we have been doing. The corporate is three years previous, and we have now just lately carried out a comfortable launch of the primary merchandise with our protein components in there as launched along with our accomplice Factbook. I’m so happy with that — that we have now achieved that on this quick interval.
Beaton: Why do you suppose different components like this are enjoying a rising position within the meals components area, not simply pet meals, however in meals components general? What are firms wanting for? And what makes microbial components slot in so effectively?
Bekers: Excellent query. I like that you just pull it like within the greater area, the total perspective of the whole lot that we eat and play. I am not somebody that thinks the entire world goes to go vegan within the subsequent decade. I believe there is a path to there. We will all agree that the approach that we produce our meals, we have to rethink how we do that. There’s a rising world inhabitants, the diploma of wealth is getting greater, we’re getting extra pets. We’d like increasingly more prototypical to increasingly more protein.
The way in which we produce the protein that we’re consuming right now will not be sustainable. If we need to produce extra, I all the time say that we do not have a planet to sit down on to eat the protein anymore. We have to transfer to a distinct approach — transfer away from animal-based proteins. There are totally different options for that.
Certainly one of them is plant-based proteins, which have been round for a very long time and have applied there. There are limitations to that. As I discussed, there are limitations on the dietary worth. In fact, the dietary worth of a plant will not be the identical as from an animal, particularly on the protein, the important amino acids, the stability is a bit distinction of some a bit much less. The digestibility is a bit much less. Vegetation, they’re rising out in nature, they produce antinutritional elements to outlive and never be eaten. If we need to use them to eat, you want very environment friendly programs to have the ability to do this or actually clear the protein out of it.
Then there’s additionally limitations on style. In fact, what we see, which is for each people and pets … when you carry them merchandise with solely soy protein, in some unspecified time in the future, the canines say, “Ehhh, possibly not.” There is a want for one thing totally different on the market.
Fermentation goes to play a giant position on this. Fermentation is a option to create protein, which could be very nutritious. That is potential due to the entire world of microbes – there are numerous totally different microbes and you’ll choose those which have excellent dietary worth, excellent amino acid composition, and which are extremely digestible. In addition they haven’t got these antinutritional elements — when you decide the fitting ones — that crops have; you need to use the entire cell as a supply. Fairly than it’s essential to clear out the proteins, so isolate protein from it, then additionally lose different micronutrients like minerals, nutritional vitamins. Every part can keep contained in the cell.
The good factor is you may produce these 24/7, you are not relying on the standard of the soil, how a lot rain there’s, how a lot solar there’s. You are able to do it all the time, in all places, since you management the entire system.
The output could be very, very quick. I believe we’re one of many quickest manufacturing programs within the world. Inside sooner or later, we are able to go for sugars to protein. Some processes take three days or one week. In case you examine that to work plans, which takes months or an animal, which typically takes years, it’s extremely environment friendly.
It’s actually such a sensible and such an environment friendly option to produce protein sources, and different dietary values. That is actually the way in which to go. We’re constructing on applied sciences that we already know, it isn’t one thing utterly new. Sure, on one hand, it is novel, however it makes use of applied sciences and microbes that we already know. We’ve recognized for a protracted, very long time these are protected, as a result of we discover them in our meals, we already eat them day by day.
We simply begin leveraging that. That is actually what we need to do. We need to leverage what’s there in nature, these unimaginable environment friendly programs are typically referred to as probably the most environment friendly protein manufacturing factories on the planet. They’re tiny, however very environment friendly. Due to this effectivity, that is what we’d like. We want environment friendly programs that require much less sources, produce much less CO2, trigger much less air pollution, use much less water, in order that we are able to actually create all this protein that the world requires.
Beaton: You talked about choosing the proper microbes for his or her protein content material. Are you able to, I do not know if “breed” is the proper phrase, however are you able to breed the microbes for protein? Is it potential those you are working with proper now, you possibly can improve their protein content material someday sooner or later or domesticate them in order that they’ll meet totally different wants within the components area?
Bekers: Sure. There are a few totally different issues you are able to do as a result of the world of microbes could be very unique, very broad. What we particularly use is micro organism, which is one form. There are additionally already merchandise in pet meals available on the market and in meals that comprise yeast. Yeast, fish merchandise. Some microprotein, so primarily based on fungi, the roots of fungi, the roots of mushrooms, truly, and so they have micro organism. Micro organism are the tiniest and the simplest ones, but in addition probably the most environment friendly, so for this reason I appreciated it. I like effectivity.
On this area of micro organism, there are hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands of various micro organism in nature. I suppose we solely know a pair. What you are able to do is go into nature, in a spot the place you understand, “Okay, it is a excellent surroundings, or it is a place the place animals eat micro organism as a supply to start with of the meals worth chain.” You may decide these micro organism and examine their composition. If they’ve antinutritional elements, in the event that they’re totally protected — you may examine them and totally analyze them.
Now with the genome applied sciences, it goes even sooner. Then you may see if they’re an excellent supply. You may decide totally different micro organism from totally different environments — decide them from the ocean, from meals, from the forest — you may have totally different ones. You may analyze the total composition and examine, “Okay, this one has numerous protein with rather a lot of the important amino acids. This one has a bit worse profile, so let’s focus on this one.”
After they are chosen, you may put them in a bioreactor. With the way in which that you just management your course of, you too can improve how a lot protein they’ve — if they’ve a number of protein or a bit much less. It is like with people — the way you feed your self can be how your personal composition is. In case you eat solely protein, you’ll have a totally different physique profile then when you eat numerous fats day-after-day. That’s the factor with microbes – as you develop them, you may select. That approach you may have totally different dietary profiles. You may examine, “Okay, what’s excellent for this product, what’s actually good for meals, what’s actually good for pet meals, which dietary profile suits greatest?”
Beaton: What are among the challenges you have run into in presenting this ingredient to formulators, both within the human meals area or the pet meals area? Like we have talked about, there are a number of components working within the different protein area proper now. I really feel just like the finish client and the people who find themselves formulating issues, they’re nonetheless making an attempt to wrap their heads round what all these totally different different proteins may do, how they could work and their acceptability with different components and formulations.
You talked about yeast, and fungi are on the market … insect protein, plant proteins. In one thing like this, the place there’s a lot science behind it, it could in all probability get technical relying on who you are speaking to. What are among the challenges you have come in opposition to in getting folks to grasp this ingredient or serving to them see the potentialities?
Bekers: Good query as a result of it is an essential query. In case you have a tremendous product, however folks do not see it, then after all, it would not assist that you’ve got it. What we have seen to this point is a couple of issues.
First, it is nice to see that pet meals producers normally, are open to consider and listen to about new components. What you see within the markets is that the quantity of pet meals that’s bought is rising, the market is rising. In the meantime, their foremost uncooked materials supply, the meat trade, will not be rising on the identical price. They all see a niche coming of their components. They know we have to act, and they’re open to exploring new varieties of components. That’s an incredible begin.
For them, when you provide a really new ingredient that they do not know, they do not know how you can formulate with, and so they don’t know how you can work together with, you will want to assist them. That’s crucial.
MicroHarvest has carried out a few issues to assist. First, we employed an animal nutritionist, Ally, and he or she’s sensible. She did formulate pet meals earlier than, so she actually understands how formulation works. She acquired our merchandise began within the kitchen, making an attempt out — how does it combine with this? If I combine it with these elements, how does it style? How does it bind? We might help display how you can mix it with high-quality components to offer them an perception on the place it suits within the formulation.
We additionally do our personal palatability research to check – are these components enticing? Can you’re employed with it to reinforce palatability? Or is it one thing that it is advisable to masks? We had been over the moon as a result of the palatability outcomes are actually good. We did the take a look at with treats, with each our product and poultry and a few with solely poultry, and there is actually a powerful choice for those with poultry and our product. These are issues crucial for them to know.
Additionally, as a result of we have to communicate to our prospects that are the pet meals producers, however we additionally want to consider their prospects … we’d like to consider the top customers – the pet mother and father which are going to purchase these merchandise. We work along with the college to do client analysis. “This product, how ought to we deal with the merchandise? Ought to it’s referred to as single-cell protein? Ought to it’s referred to as microbial protein? How ought to be offered?” How ought to these components be defined so that they know prospects will settle for it? From our analysis, virtually 75% of the folks after speaking concerning the merchandise, explaining that it is an previous product reasonably than a brand new one which you will discover in your meals, in your yogurt, in your pantry. In case you clarify it like that, there is a very excessive acceptance to strive it each in treats and in full meals.
The identify “microbial protein” is one which resonates effectively, as a result of folks actually join it to the microbiome and to heath. In case you present that to the corporate that’s utilizing your components, this helps them to grasp how you can formulate with it and the way their prospects going to reply to it. How ought to we label it? How can we work with it? It’s crucial that you just suppose not simply to procurement folks or somebody in R&D that you just’re speaking to, however you actually suppose on partnering as much as carry such merchandise into the market.
Beaton: I need to discuss regulatory for a minute, simply because that is all the time a hindrance for a brand new ingredient popping out or looking for your home in all of that. Now you are primarily based in Europe, you are primarily based in Germany. The place does an ingredient like this fall on the regulatory spectrum? As a result of it isn’t an animal. It isn’t a plant. Is there a separate regulatory pipeline for issues like this? Or does it match into someplace, and what has that course of been like when it comes to acceptance?
Bekers: As a result of we sort out totally different markets, it relies upon available on the market on what the regulatory course of is. For the EU, we’re now registered on the feed materials register, which signifies that we are able to promote our merchandise inside Europe to the totally different international locations for animal vitamin each for feed and pet meals.
This isn’t regulatory however extra high quality, however the manufacturing line that we have now with our producer has been audited for GMP plus or the standard commonplace, so the whole lot is order. That permits us to enter the market.
The following step is we need to produce and promote in Europe. Germany and the UK are very large markets, and the most important one, Spain. In fact, we additionally need to soar the pond and come your approach into the U.S. We’re additionally working by the regulatory approval processes there. We have to get the grant standing with the FDA and with AAFCO. We have to make it possible for we current all of the information to show that the product is protected as we have now laid out for them, to allow them to put their stamp of approval. The profit that we have now is one in all its strengths is that it is already recognized for meals. That permits us, hopefully, to undergo the method a bit sooner.
Beaton: Earlier than we discuss concerning the future, and the place you suppose this section goes to go, I need to know what reception has been like to this point. What sort of curiosity are you getting from pet meals firms? Are they extra excited by formulating for treats or for full pet meals? Do they need to use it together with different proteins? What are among the questions you are being requested proper now of your prospects?
Bekers: Good query. We ourselves have determined to enter the market by way of treats initially, as a result of we actually suppose with such new components, treats are an excellent place to start out. Additionally, with palatability, you need one thing enticing to offer your pets their treats, persuade them to do tips and bond with them.
However from prospects, there are numerous requests for full meals. It is very attention-grabbing. On one hand, we have now requests from numerous startups or smaller firms that are within the vegan area struggling to seek out the fitting vegan components as a result of of the limitation of plant protein. They’re like, “oh please, allow us to take a look at your product. We’re very curious as a result of we expect it is going to be nice.”
However for firms which are utilizing meat-based merchandise, they don’t seem to be taking a look at separate, new merchandise, however extra to exchange a part of the meat with our sort of components for sustainability causes and to carry innovation. It is nice to see that it isn’t simply the vegan market that’s , however it’s industrywide. It’s very attention-grabbing to see and excellent to see.
If we discuss concerning the future, there’s been numerous deal with notably canines needing to have a meat-based weight-reduction plan as a result of that’s the perfect for them. On the identical time, we discover out they’re omnivores and so they can do with out meat. The trade has been actually going to 1 excessive, and I believe now the trade is shifting again, which is superb, as a result of our meals will not be all the time pretty much as good for the planet or our pet. We’d like to consider it and have our pets take the duty in a sustainable world. Now we have now confirmed you are able to do it, and it could nonetheless style superb and be extremely nutritious. It is good to see that the trade is additionally making this transfer and seeing the necessity for that and implementing new merchandise.
Beaton: From the formulators and the curiosity that you just’re getting in them changing a part of their meat protein with this type of protein — I have been listening to that rather a lot with firms who’re within the different protein area. The vegan firms are going all in, however the meat firms, who may not essentially be capable to or be ready to utterly ax all their meat protein and even trying to do it incrementally in a extra sustainable approach, even that helps when it comes to sustainability for the surroundings, but in addition sustainability for the enterprise and for the trade. Do you see a future the place these things utterly replaces meat protein? Or do you really feel like within the medium, and even possibly long run, it is going to proceed to be a proportion of this, a proportion of that whereas we determine what works greatest and what’s most sustainable, not only for the surroundings, however for the trade and for companies as a complete? As a result of it will be very troublesome to only utterly ax the whole lot we have ever carried out and go solely with all these proteins whereas we’re nonetheless all figuring it out.
Bekers: No matter you do, I believe there’s all the time an optimum. Extremes are all the time a bit troublesome, and possibly typically not proper. In case you consider our meals programs, we have to transfer to a extra sustainable area. As I discussed, I do not suppose the entire world will go vegan in a decade. There will likely be animal meat consumption.
If there’s animal meat consumption, there can even be rendered meat merchandise. If it is there, higher use it then throw it away. That may be nutritious, and if it is the proper high quality, direct management, it may be used for pet meals. I believe it will partly keep, however this additionally has to do with economics. We’re new components. In the start, we have to compete with industries that are large and world. We, as a tiny startup, have to compete with that. We’re not going to compete with the most important. To start with, the totally different components, whether or not it is us, whether or not it is yeast, whether or not it is bugs, we’ll all discover our locations within the area and within the totally different segments, which goes to develop the microbiome area.
I believe this is predicated on the meat trade. I believe it is going to go down. I do not suppose it is going to go to zero, however it is going to go down. As a result of the alternate options are getting higher and higher and tastier and tastier, and cost-wise, rather more aggressive. We will additionally actually carry an edge. The past meat trade, as a result of we develop in such a managed surroundings, we have now a really constant dietary profile. It is very straightforward to formulate, since you need not take a look at each batch and alter your formulation.
We will additionally carry additional advantages that outweigh different advantages from different sources. It is going to be an interplay inside the trade — studying concerning the merchandise, working with it, understanding these advantages, then utilizing increasingly more of it, as a result of they see it is wholesome for his or her merchandise, for the economics. The meat trade will likely be much less and fewer and fewer. I do not suppose it is going to ever go to zero. Total, we are able to make impacts in a sustainable approach.
Beaton: You are clearly very passionate about this. You appear to essentially love what you are doing and what your organization is engaged on for the way forward for meals components. In order a wrap up query, I would like to know what makes you most enthusiastic about the way forward for this area and about what you are doing in it?
Beckers: As a CEO, I began this three years in the past. This imaginative and prescient that I had has been additional constructed and moved alongside by the folks that joined the corporate. It’s good to see the velocity we are able to transfer this and carry this to market — what openings, particularly in pet meals, there’s to begin testing it, enjoying with it, implementing it. I believe that is so thrilling.
It’s not solely thrilling, but in addition very needed. In case you develop issues slowly, and in 10 years, possibly it is going to come to market — we do not have the time. We have to begin doing it now. That is actually what our ambition is – to be on the forefront and make it possible for we begin tomorrow switching to all these sustainable proteins. It’s needed. It’s thrilling to see that it is working, and that when you’ve got the fitting method, you may transfer quick.
I do not all the time have numerous endurance. It is good to see issues shifting quick. It is thrilling to see the timing is so proper as a result of there’s economical drivers, there’s provide chain threat. There are different drivers on the market, and everyone understands that to have options for these, we have to embody sustainability as a foundation, as a resolution for these challenges. We might be there. We’re there. And we’re prepared to go. In order that’s very, very thrilling to see that it is actually occurring.
Beaton: This has been an interesting dialog, Kate, so thanks for approaching the present. Various proteins in pet meals are a sizzling subject proper now, and studying about among the analysis and newer choices out there was one in all my favourite elements of the development. Earlier than we go, let’s do some plug. The place can folks discover extra details about you and MicroHarvest?
Bekers: One of the best area to go to is our web site microharvest.com. You too can all the time shoot us a message; it goes to our colleagues, and they’re going to decide it up. In case you have any questions on the merchandise past what’s already on the web site or if you need samples, be at liberty to achieve out as a result of we love connecting and serving to with these questions.
Beaton: Thanks a lot. That is it for this episode of Trending: Pet Meals. You could find us on petfoodindustry.com, SoundCloud or your favourite podcast platform. You too can observe us on Instagram @trendingpetfoodpodcast. And if you wish to chat or have any suggestions, I might love to listen to from you. Really feel free to drop me an electronic mail: [email protected].
And naturally, thanks once more to our sponsor, Cargill. This world chief in pet meals components and manufacturing proudly gives TruMune postbiotic. TruMune is made to assist trendy pet meals manufacturers stand out by supporting a number of trending well being claims — like intestine well being, balanced immunity and pet vitality. Better of all? TruMune advantages are packed right into a single low-inclusion ingredient, and it’s backed by a number of pet-specific analysis research.)
As soon as once more, I am Lindsay Beaton, your host and editor of Petfood Trade journal, and we’ll discuss to you subsequent time. Thanks for tuning in!
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